SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall (General)

by unknown, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 22:41 (1275 days ago)

First time doing this. Could anyone please assist with any info on John Symonds .
I have found John and his wife Martha maiden name unknown in the 1851 census
Unfortuatly I cannot seems to find any birth records for either John or Martha.
Any help wold be greatly appreciated
Lynne

SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall

by Jefff @, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 23:05 (1275 days ago) @ unknown

Good evening Lynne, welcome to this great website & forum.
You can search the huge database quite easily from the Parish Records "button" on the blue menu bar across the top of the screen. When searching at first keep it vague without inputting too much info; better to see everything thats a "maybe" rather than inadvertantly filter out the "probables". I've searched for all records for "John Symonds" but have entered your "1805" date plus/minus 5 years. I've also ticked the "SOundex" box to help give spelling variations, although this isn't always as effective as it could be. This still gives 18 PRs to consider !

Never assume the dates given from Censuses are very accurate, they only recorded what the people believed or wanted to believe, lady's ages are particularly "vague"..

Anyhow from those 18 this looks a possible, although no second name so not sure about the B.

Record_ID: 433453
Entry_Number:
Year: 1807
Month: May
Day: 24
Parents_Surname: SIMMONDS
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: Edward
Mothers_Forenames: Rose
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Davies Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P241 IN 1/3
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Oxenhall
Soundex: S553

How's that seem ?

Now to find a Marriage.
Assume he's 20 years older, search again but using the date "1837" plus/minus 5 years, and the Marriage Filter. However for some reason this hasnt found a likely Marriage. A few months ago I'd have just searched again but assumed age "1847". Then I "discovered" the rather clever Advanced Search feature.
If you look towards the bottom of the Parish Records search page you'll see "Advanced search". Click this to change page. Select "Marriage" from the dropdown menu and hit return to load the Marriages page. Now click "search".
By entering "John" and "Martha" in you'll get all those Marriage combinations in the database, possibly too large but I ALWAYS think better & safer to start wide then narrow the search.

This gives a list of 261 Marriage Records !. Select "100" results from dropdown menu to give a large table. Click on the heading "Year", this will sort them chronologically. Scan thro the tables to wards the 1830s results looking for Symonds. When you see a likely result click onto the lefthandmost "page" icon to give the full details. Alternatively click on any heading, for example Groom's Surname and it will be sorted in alphabetical order that way.

This way, and thankfully for us, you'll find the single only possible "Symonds" in the whole set of results:

Record ID 1014251
Entry Number
Year 1833
Month Apr
Day 3
Grooms Surname SIMMONS
Grooms Forenames John
Grooms Age
Groom Condition bachelor
Grooms Occupation
Grooms Residence Glos St Nicholas
Grooms Fathers Surname
Grooms Fathers Forenames
Grooms Fathers Occupation
Brides Surname TAYLOR
Brides Forenames Martha
Brides Age
Brides Condition spinster
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence Glos St Nicholas
Brides Fathers Surname
Brides Fathers Forenames
Brides Fathers Occupation
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark He marks she signs
Witness 1 George Fisher
Witness 2 Elizabeth Fisher
Other Witnesses J Wheeler clerk
Officiating Minister J Davies incumbent
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P154/15 IN 1/13
Page Number 22
Parish Chapel Gloucester St Nicholas


So again the Soundex system, albeit usefull, has proven to not work too well. Hence my preference wherever practical for not using it, I tend to only apply methodical date limits then look at all the possibles within that dateband, before moving onto the next say 20 years dateband. Names were often spelt vary "oddly" to put it mildy !

The Advanced Search feature is really useful and very effective with practice.


This may be Martha's Baptism, certainly the most likely from the Forest PRs rather than Gloucester-way. Shame no clues as to parent's on the Marriage Record:

Record_ID: 250704
Entry_Number:
Year: 1796
Month: Mar
Day: 28
Parents_Surname: TAYLOR
Child_Forenames: Martha
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Lydia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Redmarley D'Abitot
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Howe Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P265 IN 1/2
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Redmarley
Soundex: T460

Re their Marriage, wonder who the witnesses are ?

Searching gives 43 "George Fisher" PRs for the whole database, most are from t'other side of the Forest, this standsout re locality, not to mention his bride:

Record_ID: 94524
Entry_Number: 19
Year: 1816
Month: Mar
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: FISHER
Grooms_Forenames: George
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Of this Parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: TAYLOR
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Of this Parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: William Taylor
Witness_2: Martha Taylor
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: James Commeline Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: With consent of Parents
Notes:
Register_Reference: P265 IN1/10
Page_Number: 7
Parish_Chapel: Redmarley
Soundex_Groom: F260
Soundex_Bride: T460

Note the witnesses here !

No doubt you'll find more relevant PRs yourself. Happy hunting !

Finally, please also search this forum itself, often others have already researched "your" subject. Also please look at the rest of the site, theres a huge amount of other resources freely available, such as old documents (Wills, Inquests), E-Books, newpaper clippings, photos, maps etc etc.
Hopefully this sounds reasonable to you ?.
Of course the more time you spend searching the PRs the easier it becomes.

SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall

by ChrisW @, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 23:21 (1275 days ago) @ Jefff

"no second name so not sure about the B".


I think the B is short for born?

SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall

by Jefff @, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 23:29 (1275 days ago) @ ChrisW

Ah I see, thanks Chris !. Silly me.

SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall

by unknown, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 17:32 (1275 days ago) @ ChrisW

Hi Chris

The 'B represents born. Sorry pretty new to this

SYMONDS John B Abt 1805 Oxenhall

by unknown, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 17:59 (1275 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello Jeff

Thank you very much for all your help. The information given look likeexcellent matches
Your tips are I am sure will be invaluable in future investigations.
I am most grateful for all your help.
I am going to try and track down John & Matha's parents on my own using your tips.
Thank you again for your very kind assistance
Warmest Regards
Lynne

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by m p griffiths @, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 18:24 (1275 days ago) @ unknown

Just found them on the 1841 census in Dymock


Will copy out

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by m p griffiths @, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 18:27 (1275 days ago) @ m p griffiths

Gloucestershire
Dymock
District 18

Superintendent Registrar's District: Newent

Registrar's District : Redmarley

All that part of the Parish of Dymock which lies to the East and South of a road leading from Kelford Bridge to Bromsberrow

---


Bromsberrow Heath

SYMONDS

John - 35 - Ag Lab - all not born in County
Martha - 40
Edwin - 5
Elisabeth - 3 **
Mary Ann 2
Ellin - 1

--

On the 1851 census, Mary Ann and Ellin were born in Pendock, Worcestershire


1851 Census, Newent

address: .... aspers

SIMONS

John - 46 - born Oxenhall
Martha - 54 - born Redmarley
Mary Ann - 13 and Ellen 12, born Pendock

----


** ??
FOD records - Newent

29 May 1859

Henry Jones - of f (Batchelor) - labourer residence Newent

father : James JONES, labourer

married

Elizabeth SYMONDS of f (Spinster) residence Newent

father: John SYMONDS, labourer

witnesses: Richard BURTON and mark of Emily STEWART

______

1861 Census, Glos Newent
Lower New Street

JONES

Henry - 29 - Boatman, all born Newent
Elizabeth - 24
Elizabeth - 7
Henry - 2
Fanny - 1

----
--

???

Freebdm

Elizabeth SIMMONDS - O/N/D Qtr 1838, Upton on Severn, Worcesteshire (which includes Pendock)

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by unknown, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 22:00 (1274 days ago) @ m p griffiths

Thank you - wow you guys are really helpful much appreciated

Lynne

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by unknown, Thursday, November 24, 2011, 22:32 (1274 days ago) @ unknown

Hello Fellow seekers
I am making good progress thank you all for your in put
I am hoping someone could help me once again with details on Ellen or Ellin Symonds
Daughter of John & Matha born Abt 1838 Pendock I cannot find any baptism records for her
With matching parents ?
As far as I know she did not marry but had a son William born 1866
I believe she died Abt 1897 is buried at Newent.
Any assistance will be much appreciated
Thank you all for help given so far
Lynne

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by Jefff @, Friday, November 25, 2011, 01:06 (1274 days ago) @ unknown

Hi again Lynne,
glad to hear you're making good progress, well done !. I love a challenge particularly from someone so polite !
I've searched hi & lo thro the Baptisms database for all areas between 1836 & 1840, entering just "El" for first name & "S%" for surname, (yes you can input abbreviated names, but use % as wildcard in surnames), but sadly no luck.
Tried other sites too, still nowt.
Thinking laterally, looked up William, guess this is him ?:

Record_ID: 153515
Entry_Number: 323
Year: 1866
Month: Feb
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: SYMONDS
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newent
Occupation: Single Woman [sic]
Officiating_Minister: F.Wood Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: no father's name given
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 41
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex: S553

Penny drops in my dim head!
Search again for Helen...

Have thoroughly (I think..) searched this site plus GlosBMD and FreeBMD, trying all spelling variations of Symonds and Helen/Ellen I can think of, but unable to find either Baptism or Burial Records in any North Forest location at all...?

Please can you check and advise your thinking for the dates and places you've quoted, somethings not adding up here (probably me but..).
Thanks Lynne, sorry not much help, but we'll get there !

William SYMONDS - 1866 Newent (+previous thread)

by m p griffiths @, Friday, November 25, 2011, 09:07 (1274 days ago) @ Jefff

previous thread

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=9891#p9892


1871 Census, Newent
Culvert Street

Thomas JONES - 37 (labourer) - born Glos. Newent (?any relation to the JONES who married Elizabeth SYMONDS?)
Charlotte - 38, born Hereford, Ross
Charlotte - 10 months born Newent *
Mary BYARD - Boarder age 11
William SYMONDS, Boarder age 5, born Newent

--

?????

If you look at Gloucestershire BDM : we have

Child Surname: JONES
Child Forename: William
Father Surname : JONES
Mother's Former Name - SYMONDS
Year: 1866
District: Gloucester
Office: Gloucester, Newent
Register: 13
Entry: 370

although FreeBDM: have J/F/M Qtr 1866, William SYMONDS: Newent
-----

Gloucestershire BDM

Charlotte Caroline JONES - 1870 Newent, mother's maiden name BURFORD
Sarah Harriet JONES - 1876 ditto
Tom Jones - 1872 - ditto


1881 Census, Newent
Culvert Street

Thomas JONES - 48 - Tanner
Charlotte JONES - 45
Charlotte - 10
Tom - 8
William SYMONDS - Boarder, 15, Errand Boy, born Newent


---

Gloucestershire BDM

Thomas JONES married Charlotte BURFORD, Glos. St Nicholas 1855


---


???

Forthampton Farm


1861 Census, Glous. Forthampton

Ellen SYMONDS - Servant, age 20 unmarried, Dairymaid, born Worcestershire, Redmarley

---


Death: Ellen SYMONDS est. birth 1838 - J/F/M Qtr 1897, age 59 - Newent Glos.

1841 Census Dymock, Gloucestershire - SYMONDS

by unknown, Tuesday, May 01, 2012, 17:29 (1116 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello Again my fellow searchers

Thank you again for all your help. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of spare time
to do my research, so the going has been a little slow.
I have been using the census index , but I cannot figure out how to look at the records. Could anyone please advise ? I'm a bit dim sometimes.

With help from you I have tracked down some ancestors to Johns Symonds'wife Martha but need to try a do a little more research to try and verify more accuratly.

One more favour please could you advise on records of deaths.
I cannot find any record of burial or death for John Symonds B 1807 Oxenhall.

On the question of Ellen or Ellin or Helen Born 1838 Dymock / Pendock area I believe.
I cannot find any records of her after 1866 -which is after the birth of her ïllegitimate son Willliam born 1866 Culvert St Newent. Although I have some info that she died age 59 and is burried at Newent, (Not sure this is useful) - I have grave number 693- 6A 183 Maid QTR? her mother Martha and one of granchildren also a William who died at 10 months are burried in the same grave.

As to Ellen's William seems he was a boarder with the Jones Family from at least
age 5 until he married. (census records ancestry.com)
I wonder if his mother Ellen left the area after his birth?
But then to be buried at Newent makes me think she probably lived her whole life in
the area but then why no records.
I am presently living in South Africa so all my research has to be done online.
So any help you can give me would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Lynne

Martha SYMONDS - 1861/1871 Census

by m p griffiths @, Tuesday, May 01, 2012, 17:55 (1116 days ago) @ unknown

When searching on Ancestry, you have to get used to putting the information request down in all sorts of ways.....

For example:

Searching the 1871 census for Martha SYMONDS (which in itself is a difficult surname)....

I put just :

Martha


c1797


Gloucestershire

born Red Marley


and fortunately, up came : Martha SYMARD (transcribed on Ancestry, but clearly says SYMONDS -


1871 Census, Glos Newent, District 1 - Page 12 of 13

Martha SYMONDS: Widow 77 - Annuitant, born Worcester, RedMarley

---

1861 Census, Newent
Back of the Square

Martha SYMONS - 62 - Widow, Ag Lab. bor Worc. Red Marley

Ellen Symonds - Born abt 1838 Pendock - ???

by unknown, Saturday, May 05, 2012, 11:51 (1112 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello Jeff

Thank you once again for your help

I have a copy of the Birth Certificate of William Symonds, son of Ellen Symonds
However, it only shows that Helen was living Culvert St Newent at the time of his birth.
According to Ancestry Census 1851 she was living with her family in Dymock -
she was born in Pendock
I cannot find any birth record of for her - I do not believe she ever married
I have some info given by family saying both Ellen and her Mother Martha are buried at Newent. However once again cannot seem to find any burial records for
John - her Father, Martha9nee Taylor) her mother of Ellen herself ?
Frustrating
Any futher suggestions would be appreciated

Kind Regards
Lynne

John Simons - Born abt 1801 - Buried 1866 Dymock

by Jefff @, Saturday, May 05, 2012, 16:03 (1112 days ago) @ unknown

Hi again Lynne,
hope you're warmer in SA than it is here in very cold Middlesex, if this is the May Bank Holiday then rollon Christmas !?!
Glad you've been having success with your hunt, I used to think my Jones surname was a pain to search but the variants of Symmonds ad infinitum have made me believe maybe there is safety in numbers instead !

Using this site's Advanced Search for baptisms I've looked at all those with parents surname starting with "S" and parent's names starting "J" & "M".
Sadly no hint at all for Helen/Ellen's Baptism, sorry to say !!

Using same system for "Burials" for "Jo%" & "S%" and ">1861"", hopefully to find all spelling variations of John & Symmonds from 1861, only search upwards until 1871 (as he died between these dates judging from Census evidence on earlier posts),

I find the following possible Burials:

Entry Number 18
Year 1866
Month Nov
Day 10
Surname SIMONS
Forenames John
Residence Greenway
Age at death 65
Officiating Minister Charles Hill curate
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda Vicar
Notes
Register Reference P125 IN 1/31
Page No 3
Parish Chapel Dymock

This would give his Birth abt 1801 which fits our timescale nicely.
Perhaps the "Greenway" residence will help confirm or not ?

Unfortunately I also find:

Entry Number 1564
Year 1864
Month Dec
Day 2
Surname SYMONDS
Forenames John
Residence Union
Age at death 66
Officiating Minister A J Woodford
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P125 IN 1/15
Page No 196
Parish Chapel Dymock

Suggesting Birth abt 1798 which suggests this is not our John ?

Unfortunately I cannot find any likely Burials at all for Martha after 1871 (I even wondered if the surname was spelt with a Z!, but of course not !)

The nearest I've found, searching all sp variations I can think of, is:

Entry Number 485
Year 1876
Month May
Day 10
Surname SYMONDS
Forenames Mary
Residence Dymock
Age at death 80 y[ea]rs
Officiating Minister J. G. Sale Off[iciating] Min[ister]
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P63 IN 1/7
Page No 61
Parish Chapel Bromsberrow

Right locality and age, but Mary ?? not Martha.
Is this possibly a Transcription error ?

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